Today on the site, I am absolutely thrilled to be chatting with powerhouse author Kiersten White, whose newest novel, Lucy Undying, releases tomorrow from Del Rey! Lucy Undying is gloriously lush and Gothic lit fic that travels between past and present (slash near future) telling the story of Dracula‘s Lucy Westenra, and before we get to my chat with the author, here’s a little more about the book:
Her name was written in the pages of someone else’s story: Lucy Westenra was one of Dracula’s first victims.
But her death was only the beginning. Lucy rose from the grave a vampire and has spent her immortal life trying to escape from Dracula’s clutches—and trying to discover who she really is and what she truly wants.
Her undead life takes an unexpected turn in twenty-first-century London, when she meets another woman, Iris, who is also yearning to break free from her past. Iris’s family has built a health empire based on a sinister secret, and they’ll do anything to stay in power.
Lucy has long believed she would never love again. But she finds herself compelled by the charming Iris while Iris is equally mesmerized by the confident and glamorous Lucy. But their intense connection and blossoming love is threatened by outside forces. Iris’s mother won’t let go of her without a fight, and Lucy’s past still has fangs: Dracula is on the prowl once more.
Lucy Westenra has been a tragically murdered teen, a lonesome adventurer, and a fearsome hunter, but happiness has always eluded her. Can she find the strength to destroy Dracula once and for all, or will her heart once again be her undoing?
And now, to chat with the inimitable Kiersten White!
Q: Hello from an extremely long-time non-secret admirer who is currently reading and loving Lucy Undying! I have to say, the first big thing to strike me about it (besides that fantastic cover and amazing premise and excitement that it’s Sapphic) is how many scenes are set in an extremely near future that hasn’t happened yet. Brave of you in an election year in particular! What inspired you to set parts of the story in the not-quite current day?
Hello! I always love a chance to chat with people whose brains I adore.
My reason for setting one of the timelines in the very near future was twofold.
One, I wanted to take Dracula and the concept of vampirism from the 1890s and imagine what it would look like applied to our current reality. Stoker was heavily influenced by modern day events while he was writing, so I took my cue from him. The idea of marrying vampires (the ultimate pyramid scheme, really) with a modern day multi-level marketing cult was something I found so deliciously funny and intriguing.
Two, Lucy dies so young. I wanted my version of her to have a long journey of self-discovery, which meant I needed a very lengthy timeline. Ending in the modern day made sense to me. Plus, it allowed me a tiny indulgence most people will never notice. While they have nothing else in common, all three of my adult horror novels—Hide, Mister Magic, and now Lucy Undying—are canonically set in the same version of reality. In my head it’s called the American Monsterverse, because I’m fascinated by the very specific ways in which American culture preys on people.
Q: Between Lucy Undying and the Conqueror’s Saga, which is based on Vlad the Impaler (inspiration for the Dracula legend), twisting Stoker’s story into tales of your own making has yielded some wonderful results. What is it about that legend in particular that speaks to you and calls to be retold from multiple angles?
Here is where my history nerd hat comes on and I say…they’re not the same story. Vlad Dracul inspired Dracula’s name and origin, but Stoker didn’t use a single bit of actual history. Even his Carpathian and Transylvanian geography is wrong.
But my fascination with Vlad the Impaler was triggered by discovering that Stoker used a real historical figure as his inspiration. I started researching Vlad Dracul’s life in college and never stopped.
Dracula was just a book I loved and Vlad the Impaler was just a historical figure I found fascinating, though, until something sparked new ideas for me. In the case of Dracula, it was wanting justice for Lucy Westenra. And in the case of Vlad the Impaler, it was wanting to explore how normal people get to the point where they justify committing atrocities in pursuit of their goals. Two in-depth character studies, both taking liberties with the source material, but one dark and bloody and vampiric, and the other dark and bloody and historical.
(Also, you know I couldn’t resist commenting on it in Lucy, Undying and having a character say they’re positive Dracula stole the name from someone important. Because it’s true!)
Q: It’s fascinating to read a take on Dracula where Lucy is on the mainstage and Mina Harker has more of a bit part, but I do love the glimpses of Mina. How do you see her role in Lucy (without spoiling) and do you think you’ll ever take on her POV?
Confession: When I first read Dracula in college, I was very much an “I’m not like other girls!” girl. I was fully entrenched in internalized misogyny. I loved Mina Harker and respected her simply because the narrative told me she was worthy of love and respect. When I revisited Dracula a few years later, the depth of the injustice of Lucy’s portrayal—and frankly the silliness of Mina’s admirable qualities (“the heart of a woman but the mind of a man,” are you kidding me, Van Helsing?)—really stood out to me. Lucy is condemned for being happy and loving and desirable. Mina gets to live because…she’s good at planning international travel and taking extensive notes, aka secretarial work.
Now, I don’t think it’s an either/or scenario in terms of liking Lucy or Mina. They’re both fantastic characters. But it was important to me that Lucy’s weaknesses be reclaimed and shown as the tremendous strengths they actually are.
The biggest reason I’d never write a book from Mina’s POV, though, is I couldn’t ever be invested in writing Jonathan Harker as a love interest. Sorry, bud.
Q: I love the way you write ambitious, bloodthirsty, and all-around powerful women; fun fact – it’s the biggest factor in why I begged you to contribute to That Way Madness Lies. How much joy do you take in doing it, and do you think publishing’s gotten any friendlier to the “unlikeable female protagonist” in recent years?
You say “begged” when really all it took was a single “hey do you wanna” email and I was like YES I WANNA. Retellings are my jam.
As far as writing unlikeable female protagonists, I never think of my protagonists as unlikeable because I like them. Otherwise I couldn’t write them. (Sorry, Jonathan Harker.) I don’t care whether or not they’re appealing, because I want them to be real.
It was interesting writing Lada in And I Darken, though. I braced myself for the reaction to her to be negative, because I’d previously written a novel with an angry main character and people hated her for it. But Lada went so far in her rage and relentlessness that she actually became wish fulfillment for readers. It turns out many of us enjoy reading about a main character who takes no shit but also does a lot of harm.
After Lada—who pursued power in very traditionally masculine ways—I’ve made a concerted effort to focus on all the different ways in which women can be strong and powerful. In many ways, Lucy is the anti-Lada. She greets the world heart-first, she loves everyone, and she grows into her anger gradually without letting it take over.
So: fuck likeability. I spent way too much of my life worrying about it. I’d always rather have real.
Q: You just appeared as a special guest at SDCC. For those of who couldn’t make it, what were your highlights, and did you share anything about Lucy or any other books that hadn’t otherwise been made public yet?
I love the energy of SDCC so much. It’s chaotic and overwhelming but everyone is happy to be there. And I especially love anyone who takes time out of their schedule to come to a panel or signing.
I actually had a big personal moment while I was there. Even though I’ve been writing queer characters and narratives since And I Darken, I’ve never been asked to be on an LGBTQ-specific panel. (For a long time, I felt like I didn’t deserve those spots, but we won’t get into that here.) Del Rey put together a Sapphic romance panel and I was surprised at how emotional I got about joining it. As a bi woman who didn’t dare come out to anyone until my thirties, being welcomed into these spaces means the world to me.
Q: Let’s jump to some of your other excellent work, like the recent Mister Magic, which has its roots in trauma that’s likely familiar to many queer readers. Can you share a little with us about the process of both conceiving and writing it?
Mister Magic was one of those ideas that came out of nowhere. My spouse and I were joking about the cast of Barney growing up and realizing the show was real the whole time. And then I made it creepy, because that’s what I do, and realized there was a book there. I was immediately all-in and thought “This will be so much fun!”
It was not, in fact, so much fun. It involved a complete rewrite from one draft to the next; the first version was trying to be about too many things, plus it was structurally insane. (A common occurrence in my first drafts, alas.) I also had to directly engage with religious trauma that I’d only been writing about sideways until then. (You could argue I’m still writing about it sideways since the book is technically about the cast of a children’s show reuniting thirty years later to figure out why memories of the show have haunted their entire lives, but for me it was very direct!)
There were definitely moments right before and after publication that I regretted writing such a personal book. But every time I get a note from a reader who feels truly seen, it makes it worth it. Bonus points if they’re fellow ex-Mormons who know exactly where I got the inspiration those creepy children’s songs.
Q: This one’s a little more author-y, but I’d love to know more about the process of turning Hide into a graphic novel. How does that happen? And what was most important to you to be carried over from the prose original?
It’s been the most incredible experience! Ten Speed Graphic reached out about the rights and I basically screamed yes. The team there are incredible—my editor, Kaitlin Ketchum, especially. Under their direction, the whole process was like a dream. I got to pick the adapter and the artists, and then my work was entirely editorial. Which is good, because one thing I’ve learned is that I will not be writing a graphic novel script any time soon. It’s such a specific skill and a deeply challenging format. Scott Peterson is an absolute pro, and our artists Veronica Fish and Andy Fish create actual magic on the page. Their ability to capture movement and emotion is astonishing.
For me with the adaptations, it’s most important that the graphic novels tell a version of the story that best takes advantage of the new medium. And I think with Hide—and Mister Magic, coming soon from the same team!—they absolutely created something that both feels the same and brand new.
Q; Of course, we can’t forget about the Camelot Rising trilogy! For readers who might not be familiar, can you talk about how you came to write Arthuriana and the queer characters within?
All my retellings start from the same place: I love the source material, and also something about it makes me angry. In this case, I love Arthuriana, and the consistently poor treatment of Guinevere across centuries of storytelling makes me angry. I wanted to write a Camelot that was less concerned with who was fighting who with what sword in which forest, and more concerned with what all the people the stories mostly ignored were up to. AKA, the women. And when I was delving into those overlooked stories, it felt natural to include queer stories, as well. (This has a long history, though! One of my favorite Arthurian characters is a half-giant knight so loyal to Lancelot he dies of a broken heart when he has false news that Lancelot is dead. They’re even buried next to each other. That is not straight.) So much of Camelot is about found family, and no one does found family better than queer people.
Here is a strange confession, though. In my first seven books before And I Darken, there were secretly queer characters. I was so Mormon and so closeted, I couldn’t even admit on page that side characters were like me. I knew who they were, but I held those identities close to my heart. Writing Radu in And I Darken was a huge step for me. It changed my life and my willingness to be open with myself and others. And since then, having large casts with multiple queer characters doesn’t even feel like a choice. It’s the most realistic part of any of my books.
Q: You have such an extensive catalog, and I love seeing each new thing you dream up, and the way you seamlessly move between genres. But I have to admit, I do wonder what contemporary would look like from you, especially after reading your fantastic story in That Way Madness Lies! Is there a chance of realistic contemporary ever making it onto the To Write list, and if so, what kind of story would you be most likely to tackle?
The reason why I was able to write a contemporary version of Romeo and Juliet was twofold: one, it was still a retelling and I love that framework. And two, I used the most bonkers structure, which was enough of a challenge to light my brain on fire and keep me interested. (For those who aren’t familiar, Dahlia let me write an entire Romeo and Juliet retelling as text messages.)
That being said, even the stories I tell myself in my head always have a genre element to them. I absolutely love contemporary storytelling and admire writers who make the real world feel tense and magical and compelling. But when I sit down to write, I always want magic or monsters to disrupt things with their infinite metaphorical convenience.
Q: Are you reading anything in particular that you’re loving lately, especially with queer rep?
I have Heather Walter’s newest, The Crimson Crown, and I’m so excited to dive in as soon as I finish revising my next novel—which, unsurprisingly, has a lot of queer rep! I definitely don’t love it right now, though, as I’m slogging through a tedious revision. But hopefully I’ll love it again soon.
Q: What’s up next for you?
After Lucy Undying, I have two new releases next year. One I can’t talk about yet, and the other I also can’t talk about yet, but it should thrill readers who loved the more gothic and historical sections of Lucy Undying…
